I never said they didn't know what there on about. I thought the forums were for people to voice there opinions. Obviously its only for the super experienced.

I had no problem at all about what Baron said besides the last remark: But thanks for your opinion, and being some random lurker. I was happy to be corrected.

As I posted above I re-read his comments and agree.

As for Iraq just grow up mate it was a 'if' scenario suggesting its not that unbelievable.

I don't know why everyone on forums always feel the need to feel the superior or to make someone feel lowly.

Also just because I have not been in ladders before does not mean I know nothing about FPS games... I have been playing FPS since Wolfenstein was about.

Well as long as we keep the comments civil, we will all have the benefits of everyones input.

Cheers Pinge, I'm sure we can manage that

It's true that everyone should be able to express their opinion.

However, there are some players (Sadact and Baron are certainly two of them) who have played plenty of ladder matches and have a better understanding of what may or may not add to or detract from the more "tactical" sort of gameplay that ensues in ladder matches.

If something is even just a little bit OP, these are the guys that will get the most out of it.

@ D3adzy.....Not saying your opinion doesn't count (far from it), just saying that the opinions of some of the more experienced players should carry more weight.

Seventy eight (Yep, that's 78) teams on the list so far with a few still to make up a full roster.
Looking good.

I apologise, but your first post in what is coming up to two years was one that suggested that "Its a battlefield scenario and this is realistic enough". I took issue with that, but there wasn't a need for my last sentence. I'm glad you reconsidered in general after my post.

What is clear, I think, from my posts is my opinion on the plethora of guided weaponry available in this game. It makes the game easier, and it makes it less enjoyable. I'm a decent shot in the tank, but I spent a probably a third of a round on Karkand essentially trying to destroy this soflam on Hotel that was marking me as soon as I left the base. The amount of times three javelins have swooped in and killed me, or the tank I'm repairing... I feel they are de-skilling the game. I think it is symptomatic of the general dumbing-down of society in general. The media is a joke, nanny-state is a joke, litigation is a joke... I wouldn't be surprised if they decline to rank people by score or ability in the next Battlefield game, and instead dole out points based on some magical 'well you tried anyway' basis.

I don't know, maybe it's just me, but BF2 seemed a lot more rewarding and required more skill.

You already get that in BF3 now.
You can drop a med pack on the floor and then run to the other side of the map and get points for someone passing by.
The same with ammo packs.
You dont need any skills to drop a pack and rack up points.
You can get points for injuring someone and then have someone else actually kill him.
You get points for spotting people and then get more points if someone else actually kills him.
You get points for pointing at a flag and telling your team to go capture it.
You get points for repairing things, flying things, driving things and so on.
You get points for capturing a flag or helping someone else to capture it and the same for blowing up mcoms or from dropping mines or claymores.
None of these are skills.

So you get points for having zero skill already.
People are obsessed with stats and ranks.
If they were not bothered by it you wouldnt have all this 'ranked server" stuff that excites people so much.

Why do you need the game to tell you and everyone else how pro you are? I dont care if someone gets 10points running 10metres. All that matters is tickets.

I cannot understand the whinge about SOFLAM. What, a SOFLAM on Square gives the defender a dominance over the battlefield. Sorry, doesn't that means that Square should be the No. 1 priority for the attacking team and on the opneing move you keep your armour in dead ground. Having a whinge about one team being able to trounce another team in a ladder match with SOFLAM's on. Sorry, I kind of remember the chopper steal on a plethora of BF2 maps ending in a such a trouncing - FFS, MEC chopper steal on TV at Sharqi and then go fly to a safe corner and watch your HAVOC wreak havoc and smash the opposition. Or what about back in BFV and doing a chopper steal - those were the days when a chopper was basically an unbeatable rape vehicle.

All I see here at the moment is a handful of voices from a mere handful of teams trying to bully people into following their opinions because they are still stuck in a BF2 mindset. I also see a handful of groupies who hang on their every word because they are kiddie wannabies. Seriously, the game has SOFLAMS included, so suck it up and accept the fact.

After quietly reading the cybergamer forums I can say that those wanting to impose restrictions here were quite vocal about telling anyone whose opinions differed to them to pi$$ off and go to GA. Well, we are here at GA now and to be honest, if you don't like it, pi$$ off back to the other ladder (when that ever starts).

I don't think anybody expects GA to implement restrictions Waff, so settle down a little. We're having a discussion.

Good luck with pushing past Hotel and onto Square without armour support. The B2K maps have been butchered beyond all recognition, in my opinion. They're disgusting.

What I am saying is that the over abundance of guided weaponry in BF3 is cheap, caters to casual gamers, and is essentially skilless and subject to easy abuse. My problem is with the direction the franchise has taken. Maybe you're getting old and revel in guided weaponry, I don't know. But from a personal perspective, it makes the game less enjoyable.

Mate,

Sorry, I hold nothing against you personally. But I am getting tired of seeing comments such as yours, being the critcal eye and all, not being properly assessed. I could sit here at write an essay on all of the negatives of BF2. People have very short memories. Yet, despite of all the negatives of BF2, people devised strats that dealt with the negatives and we had the great ladders that we did.

I say what I have said from the start, give the game time and if what you are saying is correct (i.e. SOFLAMS) then these forums will be flooded with complaints and they will be banned. However, for now, without a single ladder match played, it is the same few faces saying the same thing over and over again.

On a side note, can you tell me what is cheap, a chopper pilot having to assess the map and identify where SOFLAM is located and then using dead ground to fly in and out of the SOFLAM range and fight as part of a combined arms concept or have a chopper that can roam at will once the enemy cap has been taken with its AA and then have a complete rape fest knowing that no matter how average its pilot and can rape with impunity

Are you suggesting that SOFLAMS are (a) only relevant to chopper pilots and (b) the only thing chopper pilots have to worry about? Because I would contest both of those things.

In any event, I'm over it, the ladder will play as it is. I hope that we put some time into figuring out the cheapest, nastiest way to use these items and we devastate teams until the use is so widespread as to ruin the game, then we can get some community support to have them removed.

Baron, learn to read.

I gave a demonstrable example in regards to a chopper. Tell me where I suggest that SOFLAM's are only relevant to choppers. I am tired of reading your posts where you roughshot over people. I await your reply.

Even the noobs know trying to killing SOFLAM with a tank shell is a waste of time so I dont know why you were trying too. There is about a dozen counter-measures and support strats to help out.

0.725KDR and a kill streak of 100... impressive! Hey buddy, can you suggest to me a dozen counter-measures and support strats? This wasn't a ladder match by the way, just pubbing. What did I eventually do? Drove far around. Is there a serious potential for abuse in a ladder match? Absolutely! Is it skilless and cheap? Sure is!

Waff, I don't know how I failed to correctly comprehend your argument. Indeed, my example was limited to the ability to seriously lock down armour support on Karkand, perhaps you could deal with that. Perhaps not, as I said, I'm not all that interested in changing your mind. Top teams will abuse it until weaker teams realise the problem. That's fine by me.

Edit: Oh, and you can destroy SOFLAMs with a tank shell, in case you didn't know.

Your a total **** Baron. Indeed, your a little bully. You look at some kids stats and then dismiss his comments on the basis of them by quoting his KDR. What a little, little man you are. A little turd if you ask me. If GA had any balls it would place a temp ban on you for bullying. He has every right to put forward an opinion. You even said the same earlier about yourself being entitled to have a discussion. FFS, go to Cybergamer where jerks like you are tolerated.

In regards to myself, SOFLAM and Karkard. I did refer to it. Again, learn to read.

Easy resort to abuse Waff, a classy move. I think a person's capabilities and skill is relevant when they suggest that I am stupider than a noob and that there were a veritable cascade of other options available to me.

Please quote to me where you referred to Karkand, clearly I cannot read, as you so graciously pointed out. Also, the example of the use of one SOFLAM in pub-play was to highlight the potential for abuse in ladder matches, when versing an organised team.

If I saw a person being intimidated on the street, for simply expressing an opinion, I'd step in and help. Its called decency. If you had any decency you'd remove your stupid post about him. I will then edit what I said about you. Until that time, what I said stands.

The sad thing about you Baron is that I thought better of you.

>2011
>thinking baron is a white knight, and not a merciless vulture

If a person who cannot drive a manual car approaches a rally driver and suggests that the rally driver has no idea what he is doing and couldn't change gears to save his life, is it not acceptable for the rally driver to question the person's own ability and knowledge about competitive driving?

To put it simply, when someone who is clearly terrible at the game suggests that I am an idiot who has no idea how to play, expecting me not to examine his own 'skill', in as much as stats suggest such a thing, is ridiculous.

Your full of it Baron. At what KDR can one speak to you? And does this mean that only campers, armour/chopper whores can speak on these forums? As I said before, your a turd and the more you speak and try to justify yourself the more you simply prove it.

By the way, can't wait for you to drag in some of your mates to try and stick up for you. Thats 101 in the gamebook isn't once someone starts talking back to you?

Waff, I can honestly say I have never approached anyone to come and defend me in an argument on an internet forum. I am able to address the issues and defend my own point of view. When do I stop? When I acknowledge, eventually, that most people are incapable of accepting logical argument or of sustaining reasoned discourse. You claim to have debated me on the issues, but you cannot quote to me the sentence or sentences in a post where you have done so. We both know what that means, despite your claim in the other thread of not being interested in 'rewarding laziness'.

My point, that particular gadgets are susceptible to abuse and simply de-skill the game, stands. Maybe you see yourself as some mighty and incisive debater, but I assure you, you are anything but. The only thing I have achieved in these posts is a waste of my own energy, I didn't even get the pleasure of being given worthwhile posts made up of coherent and cohesive points which I might try to delve into. Alas.

You win, Waff. I simply cannot be bothered wasting my time on someone who doesn't get it, and further, is not willing to. We'll see how the ladder goes.

Baron,

Your lazy and a bore. You puff your chest out and think that because your the loudest you should previal. When that does not work, your claim to be superior and then say that your right and others who do not agree with you are wrong and then pack up your bat and ball and go home. You showed your true colours dismissing that kid because he had a low KDR. If that was your last post, then good riddence, for if ever there was a time waster it was you.

Edit: Baron, just read your comments from earlier before I joined this post where you abused another person and called him a random lurker. You really are the little turd aren't you.Your like one of my kids when they don't get their own way - you stamp your feet, cry and roll about on the floor in hysterics. Seriously, if GA had any balls they would place a ban on you. Your the consumate troll and a bully. .

You're*

my k/d is now 3.5

Waff, your 'insults' are ridiculous. When you cannot put forth an argument, you opt to abuse me and call me a 'turd'. Is that the mark of an intelligent, or reasonable person? I think not. Try to stay above it; it is a lesson I often have to remind myself of. You will note that in this thread, in my post #2781410 I apologised to Deadzy for my remark. I acknowledged it was not necessary, and was simply a result of my annoyance at his comment.

Now, I will refer to each of your individual posts specifically and summarise them, in order to illustrate that you have, essentially, failed to present an argument.

This Thread: #2781433 - "I cannot understand the whinge about SOFLAM...". Here you compare the use of SOFLAMs to a chopper steal, which may have been why you questioned my opinion on asset theft. To equate the two is... illogical. One is a skilless tactic using an OP gadget that potentially allows a team to completely lock down all air and ground vehicles on some maps. The other, is a skillful tactical move which requires timing to pull off correctly. You say SOFLAMs are included, and we should suck it up, ignoring the fact that the argument is that restrictions may be needed to enhance competitive play.

#2781438 - "Sorry, I hold nothing against you personally". You say BF2 had negatives, which is undeniable. You say that given time if SOFLAMs prove OP then the forums will be flooded with complaints, a point I have explicitly and repeatedly agreed with. You then suggest that choppering becomes cheap without SOFLAMs, ignoring the huge array of other options for taking choppers down. Comparing SOFLAM use to piloting a chopper, and suggesting they are equally cheap.... is not valid. In BF3 it is far easier to down a chopper than it ever was in BF2.

#2781442 - "Baron, learn to read". You claim you gave me a demonstrable example in relation to a chopper, which as I hope you can see, you did not. In fact, it was verging on irrelevant. You asked where you suggested that SOFLAM's are only relevant to choppers, when your post suggested that without SOFLAMs, a terrible chopper pilot would be free to carve up the enemy. Mm.

#2781449 - "Your a total **** Baron". When I draw attention to the abilities of a person who essentially questioned mine, you call me a bully, before piling abuse on me. You then claim to have referred to SOFLAM and Karkand. You had not.

#2781453 - "If I saw a person being intimidated...". Hahahaha.

#2781474 - "Your full of it Baron". If a person wishes to engage in a discourse about aspects of gameplay and competitive gaming, or simply wishes to suggest I am a noob who doesn't understand the game, I would like them to be able to back it up. Anyone can offer an opinion, but terrible, terrible stats most assuredly go to the weight to be given to such an opinion. It is relevant.

#2781478 - "Your lazy and a bore". More abuse, and a continued failure to address the argument.

16v16 ladder discussion: #2781434 - "Did you play BF2 ladders". Asking if I objected to unlocks in BF2, a game where guns were the only unlocks, as compared to BF3 where my principle discussion here has been in regard to gadgets and the over-abundance of guided weaponry. A real good start, to be sure. Then, you suggest that allowing unlocks was the reason BF2 ladders were epic and great.

#2781440 - "Sorry Baron, I am not a little kid...". More discussion about arguments over unlocks in BF2. Not on-point.

#2781444 - "Double post but WTF". Asking my opinion on theft of assets. Not on-point, unconnected with SOFLAM's, guided weapons, weapon unlocks, BF2 weapon unlocks or indeed, anything. I endorse asset theft. What argument could ever be raised against people stealing assets in a ladder match?

#2781448 - "Are we on the GA forums...". Denying that arguments on CG about weapon and gadget unlocks are useful for comparing intensity arguments on GA however many years ago about BF2 weapons. Why this came up, I do not know. More off-topic stuff that doesn't deal with the basic exploitability and cheapness of all the guided weaponry in BF3.

#2781452 - "The Cybergamer forums bullied anyone...". I agree on the argument about clip-size, and downing people, but if you are under fire in BF3, you die. In BF2, there were many, many times when I could turn and kill someone who was trying to kill me. That is simply not the case in BF3. That is what is meant by killing-power; the opportunity to respond and react, your chances of surviving if you leave cover to advance on an occupied position.

#2781476 - "I cannot believe your crap...". You claim to have addressed my points, and that I have ignored your arguments. Yet, this summation clearly shows you never actually told me why SOFLAM and Javelins were not cheap, exploitable, potentially game ruining and a competitive farce. In fact, all you really said was; suck it up, it's in the game. Good attitude.

Much love,

Baron.

holy ****

lmfao, these BF3 threads are a baaaaawwww you are a retard Baron for shooting at a SOFLAM with a tank shell, try flanking with your tank on pub servers you scrub, lol.

inb4walloftext

haha is that the 0.7 **** ^^ ?

baron is right, and his posts are hilarious to read.

wouldnt you guys prefer if instead of the soflam on hotel you could do it like bf2 and put or 4 AT up there that the players have to guide themselves? with the huge draw distance it would make it exactly like bf2 except would be more difficult due to added range, win win for everyone. too bad dice wanted to make as much auto aiming bright orange players and easy **** as possible for all the waff noobs lmao~!

Don't need a wall of text when replying to a professional such as yourself, but observe these armor stats:

carnage-Baron: 3587 kills - 55 hours - 65.21 Kills per hour.

Master_Xeper: 263 kills - 13 hours - 20.23 Kills per hour. (All soflam operator kills amrite?)

To further illustrate how bad that is. I have had a struggle getting used to the tanks, compared to BF2 where I was a big tanker. I've mainly steered clear of them, because I tend to get jammed in tight places, but here's the (what I consider bad) stats from that anyways:

ph33x: 248 kills - 5.4 hours - 45.92 Kills per hour.

----------

What part of BF3 are you actually good at Xeper? Not being an elitist here, in fact I normally avoid pointing out things like this, but then again, you don't confront such retards everyday either. 1 armor kill every 3 minutes.. Must be why your WL Ratio is so low. - Keep bolstering yourself with asian sigs and forum trolling, you are bad. Even worse than me - and I'm bad enough.

A good player does not need to come onto a forum and tell everyone he is good.
Or to refute the opinions of everyone else either.
Likewise he needs no validation from other players that say "he is good".
The best players of any game dont go around telling everyone that they are right and that you are wrong.

So, take a leading role here "all you good players" and once you have given your take on the point at hand, learn to draw back and let it go.
People will have opinions that dont match yours and they will argue until they die to reinforce their view.
For you to retain credibility, dont engage with them in the manner above.
To be respected put your point forward and let it end at that.

To be honest, the best players in any game are not hunting for recognition by being in your face, they get it through action on the field.

Pinge, isn't there a rule about bullying for GA. Are people on this forum supposed to just cop it from a minority few who think they shoud "rule-the-roost". I have been quietly reading the forums now for a while and I am sick to the back teeth of the bullies here. GA said from the outset that it would have a zero policy on inappropriate behaviour. How about some enforecement of such a ruling.

Yes there is and that goes for people that keep it going as well.
If a player is being a bully, it is only because you keep giving him something to respond to.

Take last night...I didn't sit here for hours deleting crappy posts because I had other things to do.
But I get on here this morning to find walls of rubbish all over the place.
Now i can go through for the next hour and delete them all or people getting into these debates could just stop it after the first post.
My time is valuable and I don't like it being wasted by silly individuals with no life.
I have much better respect for myself than that.

So you can assist by not responding.

I then only have a single post or a couple at most to deal with.

See the real thing is.. the reason some fly boys are having issues with SOFAM/JAV combos is that they havent played with ECM's and are stuck on using their IR flairs.. ECM's are your counter to the SOFAM/JAV Combo and are also useful agaist Stingers

I think its childish to have a cry about a team setup just because you are not prepared to set yourself up to counter such things.

The GA ladder is set up with all unlocks and I would suggest that you have a play around on one of these servers to familiarise yourself with ECM's

Actualy post relating to the ladder..

Do we have a "Go Live Date" set yet?

On a general ladder note, has there been any whispers about other possible ladders, like 10v10 Conquest or Rush? As a clan we can't reliably field a 16v16 side, and while CG have been talking about 10v10 it seems they haven't made any decisions.

What this guy said. When are we going live?

See what I can provide by way of info tonight.

As far as a 10v10 that is likely to be the Rush ladder.
A second CQ ladder with those numbers is a bit of a guess at this stage.
It will require a lot more servers to be added and I dont know if that is a viable option.
Support the 16v16 and its a possibility.

But again, I shall see what info I can get for you.

^^ Third this request

That's not the reason.

Sounds good Pinge. Doing a find job, and we'll certainly hope to support GA in some shape or form.

Is this in regards to ladder live date? Or random stuff these guys have been rambling on about that I totally skipped?

Humbly awaiting reply on any info on Live date... Also info on question in other thread (16v16 ladder discussion - test ladder server details/map rotation).

Cheers!

Yes, bring on the live ladder as no *** seems interested in accepting freeplay challenges.

Then Baron what is the actual reason?
because I havent actually seen you post a reason other then "you don't like it"

To me I like the SOFAM/JAV combo because I feel it makes the battle for the air a greater challenge, I tend to fly a fair bit and we are all aware of the amount of damage air units can do in a game if they have gained control of the air.

Most arguements I have seen for people disliking them is due to IR flairs being useless against them.

Maybe its due to the times you are setting challenges?

from what I have experianced on the ladders is that latter games are more favable due to many players not living on the east coast, and with daylight savings on there is a 3hr time differance between the East coast times and the times that are in the WA (only 2hrs if you in QLD or its non daylight savings)

Has been hard to accept them just now I must admit.
Its most unusual for the team I am in to not play.
But when you have this holiday period upon us, getting players is a bit more difficult.
WA is 3 hours behind the East and so any matches before 8:30ish we cant make and anything after about 10 is beyond the Easterners.
So its hard to get a full team on any day. (Well thats the case for our team at least)

I have asked about 16th of Jan for the cq ladder and I shall get to talk to Malthius and the other Ops about it.

It wont be long I am sure.

awesome news Pinge. It definitely is a challenge getting a 16v16 team going as you need 22 or so regular players to be able to field 16 99% of the time. I must say that many clans have done really well in getting a 16v16 team going, it's a hard thing to do and to have 40 teams participating is fantastic.

Did Malth talk about the Back to Karkand maps yet? Will they be included in all of their gloriousness?

Well Wally, you clearly have not read my posts then, as I have freely and vocally explained my feelings about SOFLAM, Javelins and the abundance of guided weaponry in this game. To be honest, I'm not even concerned about air-power when I make those statements either, in fact, I believe guided weaponry should be limited to items for taking out airborne vehicles. Range, speed, cover, IR flares and ECM are all defensive options for air-vehicles. My comments have clearly always been in reference to the potential for abuse of laser-designating and the disgusting lowering of the skill-set in this game. Some maps are ripe to completely lock down with SOFLAMs. Their range is far too long. If you do not understand this argument, then I have no interest in discussing the matter further with you, because you're not worth it. I'm not here to change admin's minds concerning the ladder unlocks either, I know first season will play this way, I'm simply expressing my opinion, probably as a forecast of what will happen.

Also, than*, arguments*, flares*

True I didn’t read all of your post.. I read the first few but then it became a whole lot of flame war garbage.. So I do admit I baited you so I can actually see your point of view..

I see where you are coming from with the map becomes locked down.. but I believe this creates a greater challenge in that you have to change your tactics to beat it.. I.e. SOFAMs cannot target ground troops, so a inf focused counter will work, also if there are several SOFAMs around that will mean the Engi's will be carrying Jav's that in turn means that you cannot be rocket snipped. If you are worried about their vehicles a well coordinated hit from 2-3 engis will rip any armour apart.

In my opinion it adds greater value to the game as its not just lock down these points, but makes it so you also have to be able to change your tactics on the fly to adjust to what is being thrown at you..

And sorry about the poor spelling I hadn’t had my morning coffee yet

I know Adsa has raised the question to Malthius.
I am sure they will be included, but it needs to be run like BC2 and the Vietnam maps, because not everyone has the B2K pack.
I do remember over the last week that Adsa did mention about doing the map lists but he is away at the moment and back on Friday.
Its been a bit of a blur the past couple of weeks so its a regroup time and see where we are with things.

I did get home late last night so I missed talking to Malthius, but I shall try again tonight.
I have left a few messages in irc for Malth to read so maybe I have answers when I get home.

Same info goes for Rush.
I think its awaiting the rules and those I was looking at.
So I will have them done in a day or 2 and I can get those out to the Ops and Admins for review.